Otherside Entertainment, please do not do SS3.


#1

Just turned off Ultima Ascendancy after 4 hours of gameplay.

I hope SS3 is not going to be made by you Otherside Entertainment.

UA is not bad game, its a fail. In post from 17th December: “It’s also evident some our fans wanted a game that played much closer to the original Ultima Underworld.” No way, really? What a surprise! Incompetent people invite us players into the world of Stygian Abyss and later they realize, they created different world? And next is: “Despite the game’s flaws at launch, we believe there is a core of goodness to Underworld Ascendant.” Facepalm.

SS3 made in Unity? Only one game that is on level with AAA games in 3D is Overload and in this game you can not quick save, you can upgrade weapons only between missions and I can go on and on why Unity is so bad for game as complex as System Shock or Ultima Underworld. Graphics in Unity is almost everywhere the same, console type graphics without color palette, lack of black and depth of shadows. UA is typicall graphics that is achieved with Unity.

Better dont do SS3. SS2 has great ending and those who played both SS games know why.

I was very surprised when Otherside members said: Shodan will be in SS3. My question was: “who is behind marketing? Some noob or are you so desperate?” Well, your invitation after UA sounds like another “clickbait”.

Dont do SS3 and if its going to be in Unity, you have no chance to make it work. Want to make SS3 into VR? Another downgrade to the game. And probably you want SS3 work on consoles? Game over.


#3

As the great and good of the UA forum turn their minds more to SS3, I’m sure plenty of people don’t want a second round of air bags going off left and right.

The question is whether some of the (applicable) lessons of UA have been properly learned. I can hear certain voices already citing all the numerous differences in setup, personnel and management structure…but one important thing stays the same: a much-loved, years-old property that needs to be handled carefully,and with genuine affection and respect…not milked like a doddering daisy cow for whatever buzzwords can be squeezed from its udders, or expecting it to compete in the Kentucky Derby…

What worries me is that previously there has been talk of a more guarded and less forum-friendly process. God help us if we are being asked to ‘trust in those powers that be’ even more than the recent fandango. I’d say that trust was a two-way street.

I’d imagine most people don’t want surprises, ‘pleasant’ or otherwise. They want the laying out of core competencies, demonstrable links with the System Shock universe, and a tasteful updating, not liberal borrowing from house franchises or social-media-like imbecilities.

Above all, please get your internal and external feedback loops on a decent, adult and professional setting; and no restingon laurels.
UA = Casesar-through-a-carwash.


#4

This is a lousy, unhelpful post. Obviously you know SS3 is being made by Otherside, and I’m also sure you’re aware that it’s being developed by a different team, halfway across the country.

We should be focused on how to ensure that it comes out well, not simply chastising them for attempting and how to learn from the mistakes of UA to ensure this next one is better.


#5

::slight_smile:


#6

Just to raise the vibe: Do SS3. Do it justice. Smash through everybody’s expectations. Learn from your mistakes. Do better next time. Put LGS back on the map. Most of all, don’t let this harsh negativity affect your peace of mind or your work. I have absolute faith in Otherside to pick up the torch left by LGS and run with it, once they get their feet on the ground. The pedigree of the team says they have the DNA. Now, can they learn from constructive criticism, and put their finger back on the pulse of what is expected from an immersive sim?

If nothing else, Warren being on this “dream team” bodes well. Hope you’ll keep us gamers in the loop as the process finishes.

Stay positive. One error does not make for a lifetime of failure.


#7

+1

Ignore the moaners and keep doing what you do best.


#8

Agree 100%


#9

Thanks for the encouragement guys, good to see we still have some fans! (those gleefully awaiting our demise don’t count–that’s unlikely I’m happy/sorry to say) And I’m optimistic we’ll find an even better path forward on SS3, we had some great meetings at DICE this week)
Dawn, your sentiment about mistakes is right on. You can’t live your life mistake-free. You can learn from them and move on. Are we bummed we disappointed our fans with UA? Absolutely. Are we trying to do something about that? Yes, hopefully that shows with all of the extra work, time and money (our own, not anyone elses) we’re putting into UA. Should we have done a better job communicating with you guys about what we were making? Yep, and we’re trying to do better since launch and being less worried about telling you guys things you may not be happy to hear.

As for Shock 3, as we’ve said, completely different team going about things in a very different way without all of the baggage we had and we created with UA. Recent builds show a lot promise given where the game is at in development. Our meetings this week provided some good external feedback and encouragement about what the Austin team is doing.


#10

I think most of the mistakes would have been corrected far before launch, including some of the core design decisions, if the game had released on early access 6-months to a year before final release. It would have helped to have mass input into the direction the game should/can head, and given the team more time and more input for polishing & removing bugs. The forums here are great for Looking Glass fanboys, who are going to tell you how to create a game one way, but they can become an echo chamber. Mass input is more useful, and doesn’t reflect on the final quality of the game, and you don’t have to release all the levels at once, you could just provide gamers with a cross-section.

As for working in iterations, that is one way to develop a game, but I am the type of person who prefers a firm plan from the get-go. If I have a task, I break it down into pieces, and plan ahead for how I am going to achieve this goal. Part of what UA lacked was an initial vision. I am sold on working in iterations; but if I were a developer, I would work almost exactly the opposite, planning everything, then working on 2-3 core features that define the type of game it represents. This is the Blizzard approach, and leads to a lot of polishing–and even more importantly, revising. Sometimes it’s what you remove that makes something great. I couldn’t imagine System Shock exuding the same aura of isolation and terror if there were NPCs, for example. But if you take a game like Underworld, which has rich dialogue with multiple choices that actually mean something, this has to be planned & integrated from the get-go. I, too, would like a post-mortem on this project.


#11

Thankfully, the project’s a long ways from “mortem”, let alone “post-mortem” yet, I think :slight_smile:


#12

Dawn…good post.

Walter…well, we’re still here, so that says something. I think even those who wish utter failure on dev teams end up draining their own batteries eventually. But you just ignore themlong before that.

Frogacuda…dunno if your post is aimed at me or the original, but nothing wrong with re-iterating a few platitudes if it means they stay in the general consciousness. Read Chris’s (Prod_Malphunk) comments on the QT3 forums for some sympathy with these views.

Uplift is great if you’re a plane taking off. But that plane also has to land. On a runway.

I think the vast majority who have stuck around see hope for SS3, and a chance to set the record straight a bit.


#13

They were aimed at OP. I’ve been steadfastly optimistic about the future of Otherside.


#14

Flug +1

Frogacuda Otherside was responsible for the game, not the studio.

DawnrazorDCLXVI +1 I would love to see SS3 to be at least as good as Prey, we will see.

daveeee Well, what is Otherside best in?

OSE_Walter Its not about team that made UA but mainly about you Ohterside, dont put responsibility on others. You have our players money, we gave them to nobody else. Its in your hands and your hands only to decide to publish or not.

In yout post you put yourself in position of victim who needs encouragement more than feedback. You say “better job communicating” but in this very same post you write: “(those gleefully awaiting our demise don’t count–that’s unlikely I’m happy/sorry to say)” are you represeting Otherside or your personal feelings? Its seems you are not aware that even those people who you are targeting and expeling take care even more than you think. After your post it seems you are failing on more than one front and you want Warren make all the work.

Its good thing you put on youtube video from SS3 and hopefuly you Otherside will make changes players want to see. You are mainly responsible, not Warrens team.

I hope this feedback dont hurt your personal feelings but you will take constructive output from it as Ohterside. OItherwise good luck.


#15

Yeah I really hope these guys don’t do SS3 too. Funny how all the biggest names of immersive sims are at Other side while the masterful Arkane studios seem to be made of people who worked on the exact same games, yet don’t throw their names around to build false hope. Arkane are kings with humility whose games stand on their own merits. Other side are cheaters.


#16

“These guys” aren’t doing SS3. It’s happening by different people in another state. Unless you mean the porting to consoles, then, well…


#17

do tell jtr7?
so who made UA?


#18

" And I’m optimistic we’ll find an even better path forward on SS3"

Even better?
Even better than what?
Invisible enemies with no AI that we had to wait 7 months for?
The key word to the main plot being hidden behind a confirm option?
You are optimistic it will be better than that?
Great!!!


#19

I was expecting a more timely response from you jtr7…
considering you reply within a minute of any of my legitimate criticisms I thought you were ready to tell me how wrong and rude I am
so who made UA jtr7?


#20

I don’t know that I’d consider “System Shock 3 is being made by an entirely different group of developers who happen to work for the same company” to be a legitimate criticism worthy of comment.


#21

I hope I can eat my words, I want to like it but I’m having a hard time being enthusiastic