Returning Elements and New Innovations


#1

What new ideas do you want to see in SS3?

What old ideas do you want to see return?

I’d like the ability to craft and modify weapons.

Also, I like the idea of breaking the fourth wall with SHODAN, ala Metal Gear Solid and Eternal Darkness. I see a lot of potential in this respect.

Old elements:

How about an inventory again, unlike Bioshock. I’d also like to see weapon degradation and limited ammo, though degradation should be done in a different manner.

Oh, and dump classes, plz - they are superfluous and meaningless.

I can think of a ton of other mechanics I’d like to see return, but I’ll let the rest of the forum speak for me.


#2

It’s hard to nail it down off the top of my head…
I’d say I’d love to be a real run against time…


#3

I’d love to see a return of System Shock’s time-limit, but re-iterated.

I’m going to blatantly steal from Terra Nova: SFC here, but here goes:
The player starts his “mission” per example destroying the mining laser. these would be split up in 3 types of objectives, Complete, Expected and Minimum. The Complete objective would require you to destroy the mining laser with 0 casualties on earth, the Expected would be something like a less than a few thousand and Minimum is to prevent humanity from getting eradicated.

The outcomes of these objectives would (generally) not change the gameplay, but would provide you with different types of endings, cutscenes and/or audio logs. Maybe one of TriOp’s execs on Earth gets killed because you didn’t fulfill the Expected objective and therefore you now receive email of a different person.

One of my issues with SS1 was how the story tried to tell how how to hurry and everything in order to convey a feeling of haste, but in the end you would walk circles around the same level to get the security to 0%, because you knew it was all a facade. This type of time limit actually does give you an incentive to “hurry up”, and therefore will do a better job at conveying this feeling of haste but does (generally) not punish you for not meeting deadline.

To me this sounds like a middle line that includes the best of both worlds. But what do you guys think? Any suggestions?

EDIT: Only now i decided to reply to another post, lol.

I really like how S.T.A.L.K.E.R. allowed for modification of weapons. Yes, it had the generic +10% accuracy buffs and all that kind of stuff, but for every upgrade path you took, another one would become locked. This requires you to think more carefully before using your scarce resources on any weapon, and prevents a single weapon from becoming too good in too many aspects.

One word, Undertale. The game shutting down and having “corrupted” intro cutscenes and save states were something I did not expect at all, one of my favourite parts of the game.

I remember weapo degradation being talked about in quite some detail in another thread a while ago. So i’ll just refer to that thread instead: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=1090.0

Well, this may be true, but I still like the idea of player choice that it provides, even if it only can limit a player. Maybe this could be re-iterated in a different way. But I wouldn’t lose sleep over it if it disappeared.


#4

Science fiction, for me, has always been about exploring the question: how does human nature express itself when given advanced technology?

The cyberpunk genre is that kind of science fiction with a couple of constraints: 1) the tech in question involves fusing human consciousness (either indirectly or directly) to computing systems and networks, and 2) the result is mostly horrible. System Shock is well within that framework.

System Shock 2, I would say, moved out of that sort of philosophical space (bearing in mind that System Shock did ask you to shoot lots of robots with big guns) toward more of a survival horror game. I enjoyed SS2, and still replay it. But I think I’d like to see SS3 come back to the ideas behind cyberpunk: what does it mean to fuse human consciousness with computers? How does basic human nature express itself when meshed with an AI’s lack of moral and ethical constraints?

As I’ve said before, I’d like to see the story of SS3 look at SHODAN having to live through humans. Basically, she’s decided that if you can’t beat them (dang hackers!), join them – literally. The original game featured SHODAN as an isolated cybernetic mind; the sequel explored how technology deals with a biological hive-mind. I think it would be satisfying for SS3 to be a synthesis of these modes of non-human sentience. SHODAN is no longer just software, and Rebecca Siddons is no longer just human: what if this merged existence is the future of both humanity and AI?

Would most people living on Earth embrace this for themselves if offered it? What would happen to us as a species, and our varied cultures, if many did agree to let a version of SHODAN become part of them? What if many chose not to – would it be right to force them?

In particular, I note that, as a player of a game (produced by Warren Spector), it would be the player who is confronted with these questions, who can choose how to answer them, and who gets to safely explore within the gameworld the consequences of those choices (which is what computer games uniquely offer).

Everything else about System Shock 3 – the plot, the locations, the objects, the power progression model, the graphics and audio, the soundtrack – would be devised to help let players grapple with these questions and experience some possible results of their answers. This being cyberpunk, those consequences, and all the computer game elements through which the results are rendered to the player, could be pretty horrific: this technoflesh blending is basically what H.R. Giger explored in his creepier artwork.

I might have more specific ideas later. But for now, this is where I’d like to see System Shock 3 go as a concept, with all the concrete details flowing from it.


#5

I’d like to see SS3 evoke a wide variety of emotions. Not only horror, but shock, nihilism, humor even - if it fits. There is no convention saying, for instance, a horror movie cannot also be a romance movie. I think cyberpunk should inform every decision - but there is no reason to leave out the human element. Humans have a broad palate of experience, which is why they relate to all these genres. Contrasting the human experience with the cold steel of machine intelligence would create a volatile mixture of cyberpunk and human involvement, that would change how different humans and factions interacted with SHODAN. Perhaps some would join her, or form a cult around their Machine Goddess. Slowly replace their limbs with mechanical equivalents - for the flesh is impure. All sorts of inspiration for different existential experiences centered around (wo)man vs. machine - and the meaning of machine intelligence, and the merging of humankind with their own techgnosis (AKA the Singularity).


#6

With weapon modifications, I was thinking more in terms of upgrading clip capacity, adding sniper scopes, adding silencers (does not alerty nearby enemies with noise.) I posted this on the other thread, but it really deserves a place in this thread, where it can be discussed and batted from both ends.

Building weapons could be done in three stages:

  1. Create - Build a weapon out of base components (pistol, SMG, shotgun, etc.)
  2. Upgrade - Upgrade basic components of your weapon, such as ammo capacity, damage, spread.
  3. Modify - Add on scopes, silencers, and additional mods that affect gameplay mechanics.

Also would be cool to craft ammo. And different guns should use different ammo types (goes along with ammo shortage). There could also be modified bullets, such as hollow points, which might do more damage, or have more spread - so one gun might use more than one type of ammo; but each gun would have its own distinct ammo type.


#7

I think this is very well said.


#8

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. also included this. You however had to upgrade your weapons on a few occasions to allow for a scope or grenade launcher attachment. You could also increase clip capacity or even modify the gun barrel to fire a different type of ammo with it. One example is modifying from 5.45×39mm ammo to 5.56×45mm ammo, or the other way around.


#9

Interesting. You’ll have to forgive my ignorance with shooters, I play very few of them.


#10

Thanks. Earlier I said it should incorporate different threads of emotion informed by cyberpunk - I think it should strive to do the same through philosophical means. Different people live from different reality tunnels. Some may support SHODAN, some may oppose her. Each should have a backing philosophy, and certain ideologies or dogmas surrounding their moral agency. No black and white. Moral ambiguity, and explorations into the singularity - and different personal philosophies that inform gameplay - would suit this game fine.


#11

I love continuity so to pretend that ss2 was already remade recently in the image of the original ss2, would be a good start. Of course there would be some cleaning up done on it in the reboot/remake since the technology and design ideas have improved since 1999. So long as the essence is captured nicely. I speak mainly of HUDs and technology in the game. Now that we have video messaging irl that can also transcribe your audio, it would only be appropriate if they did too since they are technically ahead of us. So the audio log should be called the log or pda and have the option of doing video but have all the in game characters choose that option when making their logs. Would be nice if they could use the original ss2 audio logs and emails but just digitally remaster them as much as they need to and add video of a cgi interpretation of that particular character mouthing those lines over the audio into their cam. Now that we have that image in our minds lets think ahead to ss3. It would ideally take place in the future of ss2’s plot but how far in the future is the question. If its only 5 years or less I would think it would look almost the same. Just a little cleaner, crisper, faster and improved a bit but would still resemble the old for the most part. Like comparing the original iphone to the iphone 5. Enough for someone whose played either ss2 through its entirety to pick up quickly. If it were me redeveloping these games I would proceed in numerical order to save myself this trouble but thats a different story


#12

I posted this in the UA forum as well, but the idea suits System Shock just as easily. We should have migratory enemies, along with the usual static sentries, and enemies on set patrol routes.


#13

I’d like some of the more explicitly RPG aspects of System Shock 2 (stats and skills) to return. Also, I’d like the game to retain the slow pace and survival horror aspects.