SS1 remake Kickstarter -- June 28th


#21

The very term “RPG-elements” sounds troubling. We don’t need to become stronger, we need more tools to work with, that’s what I would call progression. The enemies are the same the entire game, but you gain things to help combat them, much like was Deus Ex. System Shock 2 also had this kind of feeling, even though you could enhance parts of your character, it wasn’t something needed, and felt like a progression in some way. Pretty much like real life, you won’t become a Walking God because you trained around, you just become better fitted, but not supernaturally strong. If they go that way I feel it’s great.


#22

The only way I could maybe see it working is if they brought in psi abilities to the game, and kept any kind of leveling up strictly relegated to psi powers, and have a sensible in-universe explanation as to what leveling up actually is.

I guess this is why I don’t like remakes at all. If it’s strictly a graphical upgrade there’s little reason to play it over the original. But if they’re going to do something different, why not go all-out and actually make an original title? (the answer is brand recognition of course)

I don’t know, I started out pretty excited for this but the more I see the less I’m feeling it. Like, I read one of the devs posts where they say that the pixelized textures on everything are an intentional part of the art style. If they’re giving the game a graphical upgrade, why intentionally make it look worse than it could?


#23

I was considering this possibility too, System Shock 2 had it, and it was great in style, even though weak compared to the other options.


#24

I wonder if anybody actually watched the promo video instead of just going “Oh, System Shock? Take my money.” If you did watch the video did you also get a strafe vibe from it?


#25

Seen the promo and played the demo, and they nailed System Shock’s atmosphere and style. Only the soundtrack’s really off. Don’t know much about this Strafe to really draw a comparison.

EDIT: Seeing the video from the Kickstarter, I think I know where you’re getting at, this Strafe seems to be a homage to the old FPSs from the 90’s, and it has some kind of resemblance to System Shock, but it is much more akin to Doom or Quake, but I understand your point.


#26

I mean the humor in both videos is similar. It might even be the same kid in both videos.


#27

#28

Love the reboot demo, but RPG system doesn’t sound too good…


#29

Played the demo. Hated it. They got rid of the SV-23 dartgun behind the console under the first energy charging station! They’re changing everything! Anarchy! ANARCHY! AAAHHHHH!!!

cough

A little less emotively, I’m a bit on the fence. I agree that the new graphics are excellent; I’m really enjoying the dynamic lighting, for one. (Bring the Sparq pistol next to a wall – the wall picks up the light emitted by that weapon. Nice.) The particle effects also make a big difference.

And while going prone may not be in there yet, they do have crouching working. And leaning. Leaning is in! Which can be done with WASD+mouselook! Which is good! :slight_smile:

And did you notice that the specific items found in crates and corpses are generated when you click to open them, as in the original?

The ambient audio is also already sounding good. And I’m impressed with the attention to certain details: when you look out the window at Saturn, and wait a moment, you’ll see that Citadel Station is rotating. Then look up – you can see the upper sections of Citadel Station through the window. There were some places in SS2 where that could be done, and it’s an excellent touch worth importing to the SS1 remake.

On the other hand, there were a number of things I wonder about. (Bearing in mind, of course, that this is just a demo with a vast amount left to do before their Q4 2017 delivery date.) There were crashes; the textures were crazily pixelated up close; the animations on picking up a usable object were uninterruptible and lasted too long; climbing stairs was too slow and had too much inertia (got me nearly killed once).

Other things were even more of a concern. I was kidding a bit about not seeing the dartgun where it “should” be… but why remove it at all? Does that mean Nightdive are changing the pacing of the game? Why? The email from SHODAN that introduces the player to Citadel Station was gone. Why? (Yes, Terri Brosius is doing some additional audio for the remake, and a piece of it could be heard after you exit the healing area. OK… but why?) The audio logs of the original game, which were only one of the most story-crucial mechanics in the whole game, were gone in the remake demo. Why?

I’m cautiously open to Nightdive needing to make some tweaks out of necessity, such as if Unity simply can’t support some aspect of the original game’s level geometry or dynamics.

But what I would not like to learn is that Nightdive’s programmers have decided to “improve” aspects of SS such as level geometry, core mechanics (RPG features? really?), story beats, or pacing. To fiddle with those things is to risk degrading or even breaking the play experience that Looking Glass crafted.

Again, yes, just a demo, got it… but still, some of these things aren’t trivial. I backed this Kickstarter as a remake of the original game because I’d like to play – and because I’d like for today’s gamers to be able to play – the original game as it was designed, because that game is still deservedly cited as a classic.

All I want is the original game with updated graphics and WASD+mouselook controls.

Is that asking too much?


#30

Also played the demo now and still like it a lot. It has the “what-the-heck-is-wrong-here” feeling that the start of SS is all about. Blood and corpses everywhere, the light, the sounds, R2D2s attacking me…

But I’m struggling with the controls. Is the demo a bit sluggish or is my machine too slow?


#31

Is altered pacing even avoidable with the new and streamlined control scheme? From what I’ve heard, you were fighting the controls as much as the game in the original. So for that to be easier than ever, players will naturally be quicker and more formidable as well.

If levels are tweaked to accomodate this already, I should think that is a good thing, for it means ND aren’t just remaking the game as it was when the controls held it back.


#32

Those robots always remind me of Alpha 5, from Power Rangers. I’ve gone that deep.


#33

What I hope the game will include is a few cutscenes that show how Citadel Station looked like before SHODAN took control. For instance, the hacker’s “check-in” to the healing suite, meetings with Diego on the executive level etc.

That would create a powerful contrast between the safe, familiar human-made environment and the horror SHODAN has turned it into after taking over.


#34

There’s an interview on Eurogamer
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-01-how-will-system-shocks-reboot-differ-from-the-original

but there's still a lot of questions about how Nightdive will approach a 2017 version of a 1994 PC game from an era where you could only look along the X axis
Somebody should tell the author about this cool 1994 game called System Shock where you could look in all directions.
When pressed for more specifics, Kick explains that most of the new system added will be cribbed from the game's bigger, better and more badass sequel, System Shock 2. "A more robust RPG levelling system is something we'd like to do - and what was successfully done in System Shock 2. I guess you could say that we're going to keep the narrative and level design pretty much one to one," he says.
"We all really love System Shock 2. We felt it was such a wonderful progression from the first game when it first came out. By implementing those systems we're going to have kind of like the penultimate System Shock experience."
I just don't get this. If they want to make SS2 , why not remake SS2? I don't mean to sound overly dramatic or cynical because if I end up not liking this remake I can go play SS1 again, and the series will still get some much deserved attention, but so far this project is going in a direction I hoped it wouldn't. At least they're open to feedback.

#35

I think that the person who said SS2 is the bigger, better and more badass sequel is the same person who said you could only look with the X-axis in SS1, so don’t worry about that.
but yeah, RPG leveling in SS1. I just dunno, man. Just put your money into something more worthwile, like modding support.


#36

I don’t know about the pacing, but AFAIK they only managed to make two weapons for the demo, so the lack of the dartgun is probably because of that.

The story will be getting overhauled by Chris Avellone, so there is bound to be some differences. This probably also means that some of the logs and e-mails will be moved around.

It already exists – System Shock Enhanced.


#37

the problem with the analogy: “If you want System Shock, go play System Shock”, is that it doesn’t work towards someone that hasn’t played the game yet. Why would your average mainstream gamer go out of their way to play a game 1994 if they can enjoy the ease of playing a currently well-established game, which a lot of their friends play, and also has infinitely better graphics at this point?

A reboot/remaster is the perfect opportunity to bring a game in the gaming market they would otherwise reject. Why not take your freedom and improve on what obviously needed improving?

But yeah. Night Dive decided to reboot it instead, changing more than just a few tweaks it needed. Which is perfectly fine by me, but I don’t like the idea of them adding such extreme changes to the game already. The current demo is a proof-of-concept in that they can make a System Shock-like game, but not proof that they can improve on the original.
They should just work on completing the medical level aesthetics, enemies and weapons, and use it as a playground experiment with the gameplay there before advancing to the other 80% of the weapons, dialogue, textures and enemies. If it then appears that something like an RPG system is a bad idea, they’ll have an easier time to adjust because there is less to adjust.


#38

I might be more worried if this was the next game in the series as the reboot of the franchise, but it’s just a sidestep. It’s Otherside who’s going to be deciding where the series goes next. As such I don’t mind it being Night Dive’s System Shock instead of LGS’s System Shock and I don’t expect to be playing the original game with a fresh coat of paint. Not to mention that the original game is still very playable with the mouselook mod.

Also, I’m open to quite radical changes, as long as they work for the final game. I even wouldn’t mind seeing completely new weapons or enemies. The RPG systems, crafting and research are of course about as radical as you can get, but for me the concern is more along the lines of whether they will work, not whether this will still be System Shock 1 with all the changes.


#39

We just don’t know if these changes are going to work. That’s why we need a solid base to test these gameplay changes on properly without losing big chunks of your budget, and that’s where, unlike some people on the internet, I don’t want to judge as we’re not in that stage to say much yet.

I wonder however what kind of “additional new features” we will get however in monday’s update. I think all they’re going to add is working berserk and staminup patches, batteries and grenades. Maybe they’ll even add a working dartgun, who knows.


#40

Yeah, it’s just a demo at this point. They haven’t even decided on what engine they are going to be using yet.