SS1 remake Kickstarter -- June 28th


#41

The crafting system isn’t that bad of an idea, but of course, it’s really subjetive what their crafting system may be. SS1 already had some things I would call progression, therefore, RPG elements. You were always upgrading your hardware/software with better versions that aided in moving forward with the game, but they weren’t an option you could choose when to upgrade, you just found them lying around, and it was practically dictated to you which upgrades you were going to get, and when.

With this reboot, the RPG elements they talk about could be something leading to options for those upgrades, you get an upgrade unit and use it to upgrade one of your hardwares. You still would have to find the hardware somewhere, but then upgrades would be an option. But there’s room for a lot of ideas to what RPG elements could be, like, some kind of progression by action, you run, you gain stamina and becomes better at running, you aim, your aiming becomes less shaky, and so on, which adds to the experience of a simulation.

Thinking about the upgrade system, you know, in System Shock you would always come through a lot of items with no function, and some of them you could think “there should be a use for that”, even though none of them looked much like something to upgrade a weapon, or whatever. But I think the upgrade system they’re looking for may go this way, some items you find lying around in the station would become usable for upgrading your weapons or amor (would be nice to be able to get armor, the station must have some, would be dumb to walk around using just your Watchmen t-shirt).

Other thing that comes to mind is, what if instead of new weapons you find lying around, you just upgrade your weapons to their respective better ones? Like, you upgrade the Sparq Beam to the Blaster, then the Blaster to the Ion, and then the Ion becomes the Plasma. It’s a good way to implement such system.

An idea that came to me when I played System Shock, and got really bothered by how much energy the weapons consume, is that, instead of the weapon draining directly from your energy bar, you charge it with some of your energy, pretty much like System Shock 2 does, and then you use this like a clip, not consuming directly from you, only when needing to recharge it. That would turn those weapons much more enjoyable to use. But then again, with the RPG elements they may be trying to bring, we may have upgrades to increase how much energy you can carry around, which is VERY needed.


#42

That’s a good idea, although it is biologically questionable if one’s stamina can improve through this type of “training” in the short timeframe of the game. Remember in SS1 you don’t sleep, the whole plot lasts for just a few hours.


#43

That’s true, in System Shock 2 this makes sense because you’re actually getting an upgrade to your entire body, by some sort of nanotechnology that’s not entirely explicit in the game. If the cybernetic interface the Hacker is implanted with has some kind of nanotechnology that let’s him become better at a faster speed, then we could have such system, otherwise it would be illogical. It would even help describe why he’s able to go so far alone in the infested station. He’s using an experimental technology, that in the future is used by Goggles. Would be a great link between the stories.


#44

Starker, I don’t really disagree with your initial points. I came off sounding grumpier in my post than I actually am; of course I understand this is a demo and that some things will need to change.

My question is to what extent we can gauge from the demo whether Nightdive are changing parts of the original game not from necessity, but because they’re deciding to substitute their creative vision for Looking Glass’s. As you say, hiring Chris Avellone points to “we’re making our version based on the original.” Nightdive’s recent careful comments that they’re no longer calling their version a “remake” is further evidence that they’ve decided not to be faithful to the original game’s design.

I get that some changes are inevitable. The question is, how much is too much? I gather that you’re OK with some fairly significant changes. I don’t object to that; de gustibus, etc.

My personal preference is for Nightdive to avoid thinking it’s OK for them to make what’s essentially a new game “inspired by” the original. To me, that’s a bit disrespectful to the original developers; it risks breaking the fun of the original game; and – just a guess here – it gets into a contractural gray area between “remake of System Shock” and “a new game in the licensed System Shock franchise.” I presume Nightdive have some leeway on that last concern or they wouldn’t have made “RPG mechanics” one of the stretch goals, but still.

Overall:

is where we disagree. I bought and played and enjoyed System Shock Enhanced because I’m a longtime fan of the original. (As I’ve mentioned, I happily played my 320x240, Terri Brosius-free version for years before I even heard there was an “enhanced” CD version.) System Shock Enhanced mostly solved my wish for WASD+mouselook, and very slightly answered my wish for better graphics.

But that’s me. The graphics of SSE are not what System Shock needs to become appealing to today’s generation of gamers. So no, SSE is not an adequate substitute for a version of System Shock that provides the original gameplay with modern graphics.

I have zero objection to Nightdive making their own unique game in the System Shock world (assuming the terms of their deal with OtherSide allow that). I’d just prefer to see them bring the visuals and controls of the original up to date first!


#45

I think I just have a somewhat different perspective on this than most people. I didn’t play the game at the time when it came out. The first time I played it was in the 2000s, after SS2 even, so I don’t have a particularly strong attachment to it.

Therefore, my concern with reboot is whether it will be a good game and whether it will be a Shock game, in that order. For example, I don’t take issue with overly long item pick up animations because this wasn’t in the original game, but because it wrests away too much control from the player. Used in moderation, I think this could actually be a good addition to add a bit of flavour to the character.

Also, I already know SS1 fairly well at this point. I know where the items are, what enemies you encounter at what level, all the ambushes, etc. So for me, as selfish as it sounds, a reboot actually works much better than a faithful remake of the original.


#46

More interesting so far than I thought, tbh.

And as nice an the demo is, it’s way to much work left to make a real conclusion.
I just hope they shift their “staying true” attitude more from level design to HOW gameplay aspects were realized in the original.
(the interactions for example, one thing I already slightly disliked in SS2 and that could become really interesting with touch controls these days if done similar to SS1. It simply felt really good to interact with the world with something else than just movement controls, it delivered a much more “real” impression and that’s, for me at least, still the best form of “VR”)

And btw…
To bad that notebook is part of the 5k goal… way beyond my budget… but at 2k… maybe would’ve been tempted. That… and if the name would’ve been correct… and the TriOp logo instead of the razer one on top… (Why actually the alienation of the name at all? Aren’t Night Dive the only right holders right now? And they obviously did it with/for them… so…)


#47

As far as I understand, Night Dive only has the trademark. Otherside has the IP.


#48

Theres been a recent update that touches on some of the stuff were were iffy on. Classic mode that disables rpg elements will be implemented if there is enough demand.


#49

Good to hear. I get iffy with any reboot that tries to reinvent the wheel. The reason being, once a classic is created, an recreation of it is bound to be inferior to the original product.


#50

OtherSide has rights to future use of the IP, but it’s unclear who owns the first two games. If I were betting man, I’d bet that Star Insurance still owns everything and is licensing the series to both OtherSide and Night Dive. But that is total speculation on my part.

https://www.othersideentertainment.com/system-shock-3

That trademark situation is weird. I don’t know if Night Dive just asserted control of it since EA had long since let it lapse, or if they worked out a deal with EA.


#51

Did anyone else have trouble with framerates in the demo? I recently bought a new desktop gaming pc, 8 Gb and budget features, and the game was choppy. A little frustrating, since I just barely upgraded to this pc.


#52

Not sure if I am talking about the same thing, but I found the mouselook a bit sluggish, not reacting instantly. A bit painful to navigate, push buttons etc.

But it might be because of my pc (5i, 940 mb NVIDIA), which is not the recommended 7i, 970 mb.


#53

Both of you could try lowering the resolution to shit and test to see if it’s smoother, if it is, then the problem is the computer… I think. I’m no specialist.


#54

The feel that the art has to it is perfect. If SS3 has that art style I will be happy. However there are a few flaws and granted this is an early start, so that’s to be expected but:

This orchestral music stuff… nah ah. No go on that. Gotta stick with synth’esque music a la ss2.
Features are missing from original SS1. Hope they ante up in SS3 instead of “streamlining” everything.
Overkill on the post-processing. This is a minor qualm.
RPG elements? WTF! Just stick with the original design. Again, lesson for SS3 is to continue the plot and style of the game without adulterating it with artistic license too much.

I hate to say it but things that follow their own formula tend to fare better than things that try to beat their old formula. Compare all the games by Frictional. They stuck to their formula religiously but every game is awesome. Look at the Mad Max series. Every movie except for 3 was pretty great and 3 was the one they got too creative with. Look at Deus Ex. Look at Terminator 2. It was very much a continuation of T1 in terms of story development, aesthetic and characters but everything was just done better and looked better and was more complete. No need for tangents. X3: Reunion? Like X-BTF but bigger, prettier, more power to the user, more depth. Max Payne 2? Again, followed their own formula but just made everything more polished. Deus Ex 2 bombed. Max Payne 3… yuck! Terminator Salvation/Genysis, garbage. What did they have in common? They took too many liberties, were too full of themselves and didn’t bother to follow their own formula that lead to earlier success. I heard an interview from the actor for Kyle Reese in Genysis and he was going on and on about how this was his movie and his character and he didn’t owe anything to the previous movies and how they portrayed Reese, etc. Well guess what? Your movie sucked!


#55

This may be the case. My frames are not jumping, the mouse-look is wobbly and requires quite a lot of movement to select actions. I am gonna lower everything and see if it runs smoother.