SS3 fans suggestions


#1

Hello Team, first of all, thank you for picking up this series.

I thought I’d be interesting for you to have a topic where fans can make suggestions.

As for me, I only have two whishes:

  1. SHODAN’s SS2 appearance intact: please keep the iconic wire/dreadlocks hair and the glacial snake eyes. I’m almost sure there’s no need to tell you, but the tease site gave me a little doubt (Also, I hope there will be a little of blue in all that green). :smiley:

  2. Please please please get in touch with Robotkid, certainly he’d be willing to help composing the OST.

Thanks for the attention.


#2

I really hope this game pushes innovation button, hard. I do not want to see the same gameplay as 1998 on a modern PC. We have come a long way since the Bioshocks, System Shocks, and otherwise.


#3

Please, please, please remember your DOS roots and make System Shock 3 the rad, difficult, complicated FPS/RPG it deserves to be! I see a lot of old devs somehow forgetting what their original games were like, only to release something completely different that disappoints me greatly. Since you’re doing System Shock 3, I expect a cyberspace as cheesy and awesome as it was in System Shock! What we need now is not a System Shock 2 type of game. Bioshock is already popular these days, and so every ignorant gamer will see System Shock 3 as something very generic (they might even think it’s a Bioshock rip-off 'cause a lot of them are idiots) if the game’s formula is based off SS2. Besides that, I really liked System Shock 1 more. It was much creepier. Anyway, remember to save every cool feature you can possibly think of from the first game. I want the TS-04 laser rapier, too. :smiley:

Also, talk to Night Dive studios about finally releasing that multiplayer patch for Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri! That game really needs some tactical co-op action.


#4

Good thread. I just hope they won’t make ss3 too different: evolution instead of revolution. Don’t dumb it down for consoles, keep the focus on PC …
In general I like the rather slow paced gameplay of ss1/2, the immersion, the creepy tight level design.
Keep the complexity, I remember locking in some small office to be safe from the ever respawning monsters, just to have the time to reorganize my inventory, reading all the logs, thinking about how to spend the cybermodules. Ss2 was so great in the audio department, especially the environmental sounds, the constant buzzing, humming, the pulsing of the eggs … these details made ss-series so incredible immersive to me. I really hope ss3 will be like that.
Beeing on my own, far away from any civilization is another important point for me.


#5

I love the the research in SS2 with chemical elements. As a student of chemistry, maybe, I could help for improve this part of the gameplay. :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

Now that you mention research, I agree: I also enjoyed it in SS2.

Not only did it provide an additional pathway to mechanical progress, it was nicely integrated with the lore of the game world. So it improved both the mechanics and aesthetics of the game.

In BioShock this got turned into taking pictures for multiple bonuses. I liked this because it was a interesting alternate play mode, and I thought having multiple levels of research for each object type was a good enhancement.

That said, taking pictures in BioShock felt too simplified compared to using collected chemical elements in SS2. I didn’t care for all the backtracking to chemical storerooms, but for playthroughs now I keep handy the chart I made of the optimum path for chemical collection. :slight_smile:

For SS3, I’d enjoy seeing a combination and enhancement of these two approaches. Something like:

[ul]
[]Chemicals can be collected (but are rare)
[
]Chemicals can be broken down from objects
[]Chemicals can be combined to form compounds
[
]Compounds can be applied to objects to unlock benefits
[*]Objects can have multiple benefits to unlock
[/ul]


#7

I hope they do try a revolution. The tech is there, to where you can acknowledge the old while building on the new.


#8

I’m just going to second the desire for the return of the chemical storerooms from SS2. Just blatantly recycle the execution from the manifests to the non-instantaneous research times. It’s such a simple system yet is disproportionately immersive and provided a compelling reason to return to prior areas.

Also more generally on the topic:

[ul]
[li]A.I.: The team seems to be going in the absolute right direction with Ascendant in this regard with a sense of ecology and interactions between non-player entities. But A.I. tactics should also be developed, so enemies don’t simply become single-minded damage dealers upon noticing the player; some enemies should play dead hearing you approach or run-away in terror because you have a grenade launcher readied or try to lure you around a corner where they have a melee weapon ready or find allies etc. The potential that will come from losing a enemy sprinting away and wondering, alone just who or what will come back with them…[/li]
[li]Survival-Horror: Where ammo isn’t limited, it should be expensive. Damage should be severe and be non-trivial to heal. One of the insights of the developers on the last Deus Ex was that when testers were not availing themselves of other possibilities in the environment and defaulting to combat, they simply raised the cost of engaging in combat.[/li]
[li]Level Design: More opportunities for stealth and avoidance generally as well as environmental distractions and modifiers for enemy behaviour.[/li]
[li]World Reactivity: Just as a representative example of what I mean; if you set fire to a couch, a sprinkler system reacts to that fire, a small maintenance robot enters to photograph and assess the damage, you place a proximity mine set to sense threats rather than just movement on the maintenance robot which travels back through a difficult checkpoint, one enemy is killed and another is wounded and tries to seek a med-bay. Coming up with novel, interrelating and exploitable ‘moving-parts’ to the world should be a prime concern. We’re almost certain to be discussing an incredibly technologically advanced location that is also highly ordered around maximising safety and convenience, so make the most out of it.[/li]
[/ul]

I think trying to generalise chemical acquisition, from found items, just makes the system too analogous to yet another crafting system but I really like your idea of combinations and applications. I can definitely see for instance applying a caustic solution to a melee weapon or doping bullets in a specific chemical that you’ve found, via research, to be reactive to the flesh of one of Shodan’s creations so that it does damage-over-time.


#9

Limited ammo is a must.


#10

Keeping the gameplay old school with emphasis on player agency, lack of crutches and being willing to punish the player would be and is a revolution in of itself in this day and age. Look at Hotline Miami 1 and 2, old school vibe where timing, luck and skill are all equally important (not necessarily in that order) and if you make a mistake, you are dead. Those games were brilliant for it and were certainly pretty popular. If they can introduce new concepts/ideas that many other games want to “borrow” (such as the audio logs that are in so many games now), then that’s great. But I wouldn’t be disappointed if they didn’t accomplish this, because if my choices were “innovation” or “revolution”, I know what I’d rather.


#11

I’d like to see some kind of solution to the infinitely respawning enemies problem. The game would lose its tension if you could just clear out all the levels, but it loses immersion when enemies just respawn for no reason (the second game was a lot worse about this).

Just off the top of my head: let the player know that enemy respawning is caused by the reconstruction machines, and then add a very difficult optional task that shuts them down on each level. That way, if you’re willing to put in the herculean effort to do so (which will itself be tense and life-threatening and probably eat up a good chunk of your ammo and gear), you can get rid of the respawns.


#12

I didn’t have a problem with respawning enemies. I don’t think you should ever feel completely safe anywhere.


#13

These are two different issues. Frequent, limitless enemy spawns ala SS2 aren’t necessarily the best way to handle that problem.


#14

No, keep System Shock 2’s unlimited spawn system. it was simply perfect. Making them limited replaces the feeling of fear with a urge to hunt the remaining ones, because hey, you can get rid of them FOREVER! woohoo! Let’s totally forget about how scary they are because i only need to kill another 20 ones before i get entirely rid of them!

If you were talking about system shock 1, i would understand you, they would sometimes have (un)limited spawns, but always at key locations. On the reactor level, they would spawn a skittles ton of Hoppers if you killed enough of them, and around 50% of them would spawn near the elevator area, another 40% near the energy charge station and like 10% was actually randomised. By the time you cleared the area you nearly killed enough again to make them respawn again, and with a little bit of bad luck you had to start over again because you lost nearly all your HP doing so and had to backtrack to heal up… There were so many of them that it got annoying instead of scary.

I could also understand why people don’t like unlimited respawns because they waste your ammo, but… what you could loot from most corpses was pretty fair and there’s only few cases where you were forced to backtrack a lot. The only moment in the game where respawns really were a pain in the ass were when you had to collect digits from paintings. You could spend half an hour searching without finding all of them, but you could always then make respawns slower to accomodate for that.


#15

I actually don’t really have a gameplay issue with it.

I just don’t like unlimited, turn-the-corner-and-they’re-back spawns because they mentally take me out of the game. They don’t fit in with my mind accepts as a consistent game world. I would just like there to at least be an explicit narrative reason for them, or for OS to find another way to keep the tension and danger present.

I do agree that the inescapable sense of danger is a benefit to SS2. I just don’t think the way it was handled was ideal.


#16

Yes, respawns did happen too quickly sometimes, but increase the timer and that’s done. It can always be made part of a difficulty setting or something :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

Tough one. Respawns work/don’t work, depending upon what type of game you are designing. Diablo it is a must, for example, to have respawns. I suggest, like Diablo, respawns happen after you’ve left a level. This would make them both fun and challenging.

BTW, how does everyone feel about procedural levels? I could see them happening on some maps for SS2, anybody have any thoughts? Maybe cyberspace?


#18

I could see procedural generation of levels working for cyberspace (or planetside if it went there), but I would find it particularly immersion breaking on any “constructed” level (e.g. floors on a space station, large capital starships etc.) that isn’t being influenced by something strange (e.g. the drive system in SS2).

Large warships are designed with specific layouts in mind to mitigate damage or prevent easy access to intruders. While the ship may not be a warship, an exploration vessel designed to go to unknown territory in space (where impacts several orders of magnitude larger than a bullet are common) would have similar thinking going into its construction.

Edit: That’s what separates average sci-fi from very good sci-fi, the thinking that goes into the progression of technology and design principles behind the technology shown.


#19

Cyberspace? Sure. On actual levels? No. It’s not a rougelike or a Diablo clone. System Shock games had masterful level design (even Bioshock did a lot with themeing and environmental storytelling), why piss away one of the most defining features of the series (and Looking Glass FP games in general)?

Maybe if there’s some weird hallucinationy “brains going haywire from augmentations and SHODAN’s hacking” - type of segment near the end of the game that’s like the nightmare sequences from Max Payne 1, with emphasis on just finding your way out from a maze, then maybe. But designing every level around an arcitechturally believable space station/ship should form the basis of the level design.


#20

Love this idea. Obviously, I would want the actual campaign to be hand-crafted, but some kind of procedurally generated bonus missions would be great. Like the Chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne.